Why didn't the C64 come with Simons' BASIC in the box from 1983 onward?
High agreement — the answer is well-supported across models.
Models agree on
- ✓Simons' BASIC was an optional, third-party product, not part of the core C64 system.
- ✓Including Simons' BASIC would have significantly increased the C64's manufacturing cost and base price, which was contrary to Commodore's competitive pricing strategy.
- ✓The C64 shipped with Commodore BASIC V2, which was considered sufficient for most users.
- ✓Simons' BASIC was aimed at advanced users/programmers, while the C64 targeted a broader, more casual audience.
Points of disagreement
- ~There was a divergence in identifying the developer of Simons' BASIC; ERNIE 4.5 and DeepSeek V3 named David Simons, while Seed 1.6 named Paul Lutus.
The Commodore 64 (C64) did not come with Simons' BASIC included in the box from 1983 onward because it was consistently treated as an optional, third-party enhancement rather than a core component. The primary reasons for this strategic choice centered on cost, marketing, and the C64's target audience.
Here's a breakdown of why Simons' BASIC was never bundled:
-
Cost-Effectiveness and Pricing Strategy: A fundamental aim for Commodore was to keep the C64's price point competitive and affordable for the mass market. Including Simons' BASIC, which was sold separately as a cartridge or disk, would have significantly increased manufacturing costs for each unit. This would have raised the base price, potentially undermining the C64's market appeal, especially during a period when its price was already dropping significantly (from $595 in 1982 to $199 by 1983). By offering it separately, Commodore maintained low base costs and profit margins.
-
Licensing and Royalties: Simons' BASIC was developed by an external party, David Simons (cited by ERNIE and DeepSeek V3) or Paul Lutus (cited by Seed 1.6). Regardless of the specific developer, it was a licensed product. Bundling it would have necessitated per-unit royalty payments, which would have further eroded profits. Selling it as an add-on allowed Commodore to generate additional revenue without incurring these costs on every C64 sold.
-
Default BASIC Sufficiency: The C64 came with Commodore BASIC V2, a version derived from Microsoft BASIC. This was considered sufficient for the majority of users, especially those new to programming, casual users, and for educational purposes the C64 was marketed for. Commodore BASIC V2 was also widely compatible with existing software, educational materials, and peripherals.
-
Target Audience and Marketing: Simons' BASIC was primarily aimed at power users, hobbyists, and advanced programmers who desired enhanced graphics, sound commands, and more advanced features beyond standard BASIC. It was not deemed essential for the broad, general audience that Commodore was targeting with the C64. Commodore's strategy was to offer a modular system, providing an affordable base unit and allowing users to purchase specialized expansions like Simons' BASIC if their needs evolved. This approach offered a high-value upgrade for specific segments of the user base without burdening all buyers with features they might not use.
-
Simplicity and Compatibility: Commodore BASIC V2 was simpler for beginners to learn. Introducing a more complex version might have been overwhelming for new users. Additionally, Simons' BASIC, as an extension not universally adopted or standardized, could potentially introduce compatibility issues with existing programs, although this point had less emphasis than cost or licensing.
You just saw open-source models answer
Want GPT-5, Claude, Gemini & more on the same question?
Sign in free to run any question against frontier models — side by side, same synthesis, honest comparison.